Our regular interviewer Una Riley goes to Westminster to talk to Coalition junior minister Mike Penning.
You could say that the minister is also a security professional in terms of the wider world of security. After leaving school he joined the British Army and served in the Grenadier Guards. He then worked as a firefighter before going into the family business. He later entered public service as a political journalist and in 2005 became the Conservative MP for Hemel Hempstead. At the 2010 election Penning achieved one of the largest increases in his majority of all MPs, when he took half of the vote share to hold the seat. This resulted in the largest swing from Labour to the Conservatives in the country. With a record like that it is no wonder that Penning has been appointed to ministerial positons in many areas. Directly following that election, Prime Minister David Cameron appointed him a minister of state for Transport. In the reshuffle of September 2012, he was moved to become Minister of State for Northern Ireland, a position he held for just over a year until being promoted to become Minister of State for Disabled People in October 2013. He was then promoted a second time in July 2014 to serve as the Minister of State for Policing, and for Justice. He was also made a member of the Privy Council. However, despite all those pressures on him he has also worked tirelessly within the constituency and is held in high regard by the local electorate.
As the Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims I recently caught up with him at the House of Commons. We met in his office and I wanted to learn more about the man behind the role. I mentioned there had been a lot written about him in the media but asked him for some information that wasn’t out there that could be connected with the wider world of security. Penning sat back, smiled and said: “Well, for instance when I was in the Army, typically we would take on part time work and I used to work as a door-man. In those days there was no security checks or training … there was nothing. It was a case of if you could talk the talk or had the beef that was it. I was able to talk the talk … which is probably why I am in this profession. I am really thrilled now as to where we are regarding private security, concerning training and licensing. However, I wish we did not need as many people on licensed premises as we have now. I find it strange that in the old town in Hemel Hempstead there is a door supervisor on almost every door of every pub but I guess that is just the world we live in. The good thing is that the private security personnel are required to be more professional and not recruited in the way that was in operation when I was younger.”
We went on to discuss the private and the public sector difference but I wanted to get back to Penning’s early days in the military. He continued: “I was 16 when I started my military career and was deployed to Northern Ireland for the first time just after I was 18 working mostly on the border. I then returned some years later as the Counter-Terrorism Minister… somewhat surreal. Coming full circle having done counter terrorism the Prime Minister knew the sort of work I would like to do as I have been quite open about wanting to work with the MoD and the police all the way through. I believe that it does send a message if you have someone with empathy within the wider world of security.” I agree, as do most people, that MPs with life experience who can transfer their skills to public service can only be of benefit to us all. We then went on to talk about policing policy and the synergy between the public and private sector. Penning was enthusiastic and replied. “What is fascinating is that I go around the 43 [police forces], some are huge like the Met and some smaller like Bedfordshire. Frankly, it is interesting they way each has decided how they want to deliver their front line policing and the work they need to do whilst at the same time addressing the austerity that we have all had to acknowledge. Some have used private security before and it might not have worked because the contracts were not written properly and there was a lot of PFIs (private finance initiatives) out there that private security had been locked in to. However, there are some forces that are using private security once the arrest has taken place through to custody. For some authorities that works but others do not want to work that way. At the same time we have to look at what are the areas for the police – to police. For instance I have had a lot of discussions recently with the police that head up my footballing unit. Inside the ground it is very much private security these days with stewards and other professionals involved. Then the minute you get on to the public streets outside it becomes a police issue but it is a very grey area sometimes as to what is private land and what is public. Also is it really up to the police to have to be the shepherds at football or rugby matches or other events like that? It is an area that we really need to consider and I have already said that I think for instance the football premier league needs to look seriously at the amount of money they are getting in and how much they are putting back in to the sector.”
I enquired about Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) and special constables; and whether there might be a government strategy for the future regarding the use of contracted private security in the police. He replied: “The PPCs are hugely important and there is no doubt that I have seen a massive change in the attitude towards the private security sector and while we keep front line policing absolutely where bobbies should be, there is a lot of work behind the scenes where the private sector are able to operate and you can see that taking place.”
We spoke at length about the changes over recent years in the public and private sectors, including the questioning of roles such as the issue of a highly qualified police officer performing a task that might be better suited to a private security officer. The minister also outlined the many agencies that have been working separately that are now coming together under the ‘justice’ banner. He explained that he was able to work in a cross fertilisation manner that allowed him to see issues from different perspectives. I asked where he envisaged the threats and opportunities for the future of the CJS (criminal justice system)? He replied: “Threats is reputation and the correct level of response is crucial. It has to do exactly what it says on the tin and has got to be professional. There have been some good successes for instance I did the G8 summit in Loch Erne and I had a huge amount of mutual aid from the police across the UK. But a private security firm did 90 per cent of the perimeter and the security up at NATO. What you can’t have is the situation that happened at the Olympics. It is a case of four steps forward and two steps backwards but we have to work together in partnership. I think it has been a case of the rigour within past contracts that has been an issue … on both sides. But I have to say that without the private sector at Loch Erne it couldn’t have been done.”
I then turned to the question of victims and in particular crimes against women. Given that we are better informed in terms of sexual education it is a fact that there are more crimes against women and the incident of rape is higher. The minister explained that he hoped that it was because more people were now reporting the crimes than before. He said: “The police and the CPS [Crown Prosecution Service] are working together to ensure victims are looked after. I chair the victims’ panel for instance and in sexual violence I think one of the most under-reported crimes is male rape and sexual assault. For the first time we have put money in to a specific male rape centre and that is run by the private sector and charitable contribution.”
The minister has a huge remit and I asked, given the general election is looming, was there a burning issue he would like to have seen come to fruition. He said: “One of the things we have to follow through and as we have started the process no matter who gets into government will be carried through, is ensuring there is a single confident process for a victim knowing when they make that first call it will be dealt with professionally all the way through the CJS. The amount of victims that say to me they have no faith in the criminal justice system and the perception that judges treat them disrespectfully or the police did not know what they were talking about is of great concern. There are also those who report crime but don’t see themselves as victims. The way we manage these nuances through is important and technology is going to help us a lot with that. We are not only talking about CCTV but for instance more and more officers are wearing body cameras, so we have to manage how to get that information through the court system to get more ‘guilty’ pleas when the evidence is physically there. Also how we deal with out of court settlements or in other words cautions … we want to get away from the idea that a caution is just a slap on the wrist. In fact I want to do away with cautions all together. We are piloting at the moment in three forces, getting rid of cautions and having basically two alternatives, one for very minor offences where the victim can have an input into the mix and the other being deferred prosecution. This will totally transform the system as the victim will be able to tangibly understand the process because they are kept informed throughout.”
We went on to talk about another pilot being staged in Somerset about a communication platform on behalf of the victim that will give them more control in line with their particular needs. The aim is to make the victim feel part of the justice process; not excluded. One of the stories that the minster recalled was recently meeting two prisoners that were former military veterans. He explained that a new charity was being championed by Jim Davidson and Simon West to help former military personnel who find themselves in prison and to stop them re-offending. Kings College London, not surprisingly, has identified problems with alcohol, drugs and post-traumatic stress being causal factors that result in them ending up in the prison system. It is a charity I intend to support as we all have a responsibility to ‘vets’ coming back with problems caused by their experiences in the course of their duty … and after all they are part of the wider world of security professionals.
