John Murphy, the head of security at the Irish retail chain Lifestyle Sports, went on the first Wicklander-Zulawski (W-Z) interview course in the UK in October 2009. He told the Retail Fraud event on April 20 how the training produced results – as soon as he tried it for real.
Before the W-Z training, John Murphy and team had not had training in how to interview people. While they did interviews in a professional way, there was the feeling as Murphy put it that they were missing things. As he put it with droll humour, as the retailer had digital CCTV recording, so there was not even the option of putting videotapes on the interview tables as props. (Not allowed by W-Z.) To give some detail about the man and the retailer: Murphy and his team do not have military or police backgrounds. Murphy has a ‘small’ in-house team to cover the 65 sports stores. John has a field-based security manager and four field security managers, and store-based security officers. Although the retailer reports falling shrinkage by cash loss, according to the Global Theft Barometer only the Hungarians rate worse than the Irish for internal shop theft; and according to Irish police (Garda) figures, theft from shops is rising, blamed on unemployment.
Newly-W-Z-trained, John Murphy tried his new skills on the case of a sales team member. Murphy gave the event a digest of the W-Z method; first comes the pre-planning, gathering background information, such as any CCTV, and the careful setting up of the interview room. John Murphy singled out the requirement of no unannounced distractions – so that the interviewer can concentrate on the interviewed person’s behaviours. Second comes the introductory statements, by the interviewer, to ‘establish the behavioural norm’. By asking questions – such as name and date of birth, things the interviewer knows already – the interviewer sets out his role, always avoiding ‘harsh’ words such as theft. The interviewer discusses how he goes about an investigation. Third, is the rationalisation. The interviewer goes through the reasons, or excuses, why a suspect might not overcome the fear of confessing; such as fear of arrest, or losing their job; or admitting that peer pressure led to the member of staff giving price overrides. Knowing the circumstances of the crime, the interviewer can tell a story, to show empathy with the suspect. Fourth is obtaining the admission, so that the company can resolve the issue – today, bringing some urgency to the interview. The critical phase of this process is the ‘test for submission’; the interviewer needs to evaluate the suspect’s behaviour, for signs of acceptance. If they are there, you move to the ‘assumptive question’ – such as ‘what is the most you took in a single day? Two thousand euros?’ (If the suspect still denies it, or tries to delay, you go back to the rationalisation stage and work again towards the ‘assumptive question’.)
Once the suspect has admitted there was taking of money, you then develop that admission – when and where it started, what the takings were. John Murphy had begun the interview knowing only of price overrides. After 20 minutes, he had the member of staff admitting to 1800 euros theft – before any mention of the price overrides. The employee admitted taking stock from the stock room, and till and refund frauds. On police advice, the retailer brought forward a stock-take, because so far evidence o the loss was lacking; and the retailer was able to match loss to the suspect’s letter of explanation. “I have to admit by our old method of interview, we would have gained admission of the price override issue, but nothing else; and would have walked out thinking we did an OK job.”
While the W-Z as John Murphy and the W-Z trainers stress is a methodology, as Murphy said, the fact remains that no two interviews are the same; and there is no substitute for evidence. Murphy said: “The W-Z technique offers the interviewer structure, and ability to control the interview. It provides consistency. It is cost-effective and most importantly it works.”
The next W-Z training dates in the UK are at Hinckley on May 19 and 20, taken by one half of W-Z, Dave Zulawski. If you want a flavour of the course, Cardinal who are exclusively running W-Z classes in the UK, are offering a half-day taster at their Essex offices on May 18. For Cardinal, former retail head Geoffrey Northcott also spoke. The former police officer took the two-day W-Z course in the United States; sent there by his employer the book chain Borders: “Without a doubt I became a better all-round interviewer with a far greater understanding of the interview process.” As he said, a successful formula replaced ‘gut feelings’ about what worked with witnesses, and suspects. “I wish I had done the course 20 years ago when I first came into loss prevention,” Northcott added.
